Category Archives: Third Places

by | September 13, 2015 · 4:29 pm

Thoughts on Third Places

When I think informal gathering places, I vividly recall in my memory the multiple use of public spaces in the business district in Hong Kong.
Growing up in Hong Kong, I remember that whenever I had the occasion of passing through Central, the main business district, on Sunday, I would see groups of domestic helpers socializing outside public buildings or train stations, creating a “third place” for themselves. In Hong Kong, domestic helpers from the Philippines are required by law to have 12 consecutive hours off per week and since many may not be able to afford a full day of paid-entertainment with friends, they gather themselves in “third places” — generating entertainment for themselves through singing, eating, chatting and playing music.
The spaces that domestic helpers spend their 12-hour break is not normally used as a gathering spot — on weekdays, these areas are full of office workers who are walking to and from their office. There may be some benches that are occupied by the lunch crowd, but the setup in the district provides little to no intention of being used as a place for large groups to socialize. The area is full of professional service companies with offices in skyscrapers, government offices and big banks — it is an area meant for conducting business. You can think of it as Financial District in NYC, it is relatively quiet on the weekends and most locals would not consider FiDi to be a fun/cool place to hang out.
Few filipino helpers know Cantonese fluently, unlike other ethnic minorities such as Pakistanis and Indians who often speak Cantonese as well as the locals. Their unfamiliarity with the local language, combined with their transient status, makes it more difficult for them to assimilate with the locals than other minorities. As Hong Kong is only a temporary home for domestic helpers, many find comfort in meeting and spending time with others from their real home.
On Sundays, the atmosphere of the public space in Central is transformed. Laughter, song, and music replace serious conversations, and the space exhibits a sense of community and social interaction.

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by | · 4:15 pm

How to get rid of our “Third Places” and thoughts on: Our Vanishing “Third Places”

“An electronically-operated garage door out front and a privacy fence out back afford near-total protection from those who, in former days, would have been neighbors.”

I think that separating ourselves from the outside world is in vogue. From immersing  ourselves to our systematic daily routine (and not looking out) to grabbing with our eyes any digital device screen (and reducing to a minimum our peripheral vision) we create “bubbles” and occupy them at all times. If that process is increasing by the minute, it means that the demand for “Third Places” is decreasing and of course the customer is always right.

“The flaw in much of today’s residential land use pattern — all space is used up and there’s no provision for a community life.”

I think part of the flaw is a response to how our “home-to-work-and-back-again shuttle” works: mainly as a car commute. Therefore, that need was answered by a city-grid planned around vehicles with a very high percentage of the public property dedicated to vehicular circulation and the rest to pedestrian circulation only.

If you want to get rid of our few “Third Places” simply do nothing or move as far away from work as possible.

On the other hand, if you want them back follow what advanced societies do:

“THE CITIES OF THE FUTURE ARE PEOPLE-FRIENDLY CITIES” (http://denmark.dk/en/green-living/bicycle-culture/the-cities-of-the-future-are-people-friendly-cities/)

I think the best way to try to rescue or create public “Third Places” might be to transform our sidewalks from being circulation-paths to a series of bay-spaces or plazas by lowering the percentage-area that is currently assigned to cars.

“Third places are nothing more than informal public gathering places.”

The moment “Third Places” appear people will start using them.

About six years ago New York City created a “Third Place” in Times Square as a series of plazas that potentiated the place to become an actual square. In my opinion an excellent move. It helped near by businesses and attracted many interesting people like “The Desnudas”.

“The Desnudas of Times Square, Topless but for the Paint” (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/nyregion/the-desnudas-of-times-square-topless-but-for-the-paint.html)

Unfortunately, if you want to get rid of our few “Third Places” simply become one.

“Mayor de Blasio Raises Prospect of Removing Times Square Pedestrian Plazas” (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/nyregion/mayor-de-blasio-raises-prospect-of-removing-times-square-pedestrian-plazas.html)

 

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by | · 4:11 pm

Thoughts on Ray Oldenburg’s article “Our Vanishing ‘Third Places’”

In the article “Our Vanishing ‘Third Places” Ray Oldenburg argues that our happiness hinges on our ability to socialize with the people around us, and we need places where we can support this social interaction. Oldenburg coined these places as “third places,” defining the “first place” as home and the “second place” as work.

 

Oldenburg outlined the importance of “third places.” They serve has hubs; they benefit communities by providing people with a place for getting information, exchanging ideas, and connecting with each other. Since Oldenburg wrote this article, we have (to some extent) resolved many of these needs with the internet. We have created accessible virtual places within games, social media, and public forums where we can chat and mingle. There are innumerable ways to be informed, entertained and self educated with the internet. While Oldenburg’s vision relied on a local gathering place that people can walk to, we now have an even closer alternative right at our fingertips.

 

Still, it’s worthwhile to consider the nuances of Oldenburg’s physical “third place” today. Even though the internet has created a version of his “third place,” it doesn’t quite hit all of his points. While the internet can help facilitate conversations, it does not directly replace meeting someone in person. On the internet, we have a high amount of control over who we meet, when we meet, and how we meet. It doesn’t help populate Oldenburg’s barren suburban streets nor does it create the ideal conditions for the casual, spontaneous interactions that he valued. While we have invented technology for us to communicate efficiently, we have not created technology to communicate naturally like we do in real life. We can’t hug a sad friend who is miles away. Unless provoked, most people aren’t proactive to meet their neighbors. Oldenburg’s physical “third place” forces individuals to step out from behind the screen and actively participate in their surroundings. Unlike your computer or device, you can’t turn off or log out of your physical environment. Oldenburg wants people to contribute to the humanity of a community by being both mentally and physically present.

 

There is certainly value to physical “third places.” Yet, I don’t think that “third places” need to be formal structures like Oldenburg’s taverns or corner stores. Even though proximity is obviously convenient, his argument for “walking cities” might be irrelevant in the next few years. With driverless cars or even improved public transportation, it will be much easier for anyone to make it to their “third places” no matter what the distance is. Accessibility is no longer a strong enough reason for building local physical “third places.” (Though urban sprawl might be.) Kathy Madden’s article “Third Places I Know” describes impromptu “third places” that occur on the sidewalk or in a parking lot – a place forms when and where ever people happen to meet. Services like MeetUp, Lyft, Swarm and even dating apps start to create flexible gathering places that can occur while in route or in situ. I imagine that the future of “places” won’t all be contained in neatly framed buildings. They’ll be unconventional, shapeshifting and mobile – maybe they’ll be highly evolved food trucks or mobile gyms?

 

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by | · 12:15 am

Thoughts on “Third Places” – Debbie

For our Public Interfaces class, we read the article Our Vanishing “Third Places” by Ray Oldenburg.  He explains that home is our first place, work is our second place, and third places are an escape from both.  He describes them as “informal public gathering places” where people can “gather easily, inexpensively, regularly, and pleasurably” close to home.

As interaction designers, it is second nature to think about the user needs of a community.  Knowing the benefits of these types of places for both newcomers and the existing residents on social well-being and psychological health, it seems that in addition to supporting community clinics and services, there should be more attention placed on creating an environment that encourages entrepreneurs to create/bring back these kinds of places.  Mr. Oldenburg mentions that almost a fifth of the population changes residence every year.  This seems to me like a great opportunity for an enterprising person.

Cultures in which third places exist are ones that believe these places are just “as essential as home and work”.  The increased demand for the services of “helping professions” in the United States as these places disappeared suggests that we need these places just as much.

The author shares an encouraging anecdote about a town that widened the width of a sidewalk and added back parking on the block.  This wider sidewalk made it possible for the coffee shop to add outdoor seating which resulted in more people frequenting the area.  With increased foot traffic, a man started selling newspapers on the corner.  One small change really made a big difference and transformed a coffee shop into a “third place”.  The key is that these places are local, “within walking distance of the people they serve”.

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by | September 12, 2015 · 10:03 pm

Third Places Reflection – Datrianna

     In the early part of ” Third Places”, by Ray Oldenburg, he speaks about people needing respite from their community and how often times, electronic garage doors and privacy fences help people hide. After reading this, I questioned whether it was community people wanted protection from, or rather, those outside of the community. Based on my experience, it is not the community I seek to protect myself from, but the people outside of the community who venture in for a variety of reasons, none of which include, getting to know the existing community members.
     As I read further into the article, I began to reflect on my experiences with third places and how they have impacted my life and the spaces I reside in. I’ve always known that I was the kind of person who enjoyed city life, but there was a point in my life when I lived in the suburbs of Virginia and my lack of access to Third Places really took a toll on my spirit. I didn’t know anyone who lived in walking distance and there were few places nearby that I could visit, if only to escape my amenity-filled, modern apartment. After living in this space for 2 years, I decided to attend graduate school and knew that I wanted to move to New York. I chose New York because I would prefer sensory overload and Third Place overload than continue living in a place with no sense of community. I now live in Harlem and my experience is much closer to what Oldenburg describes when he talks about the role Third Places play in communities. I visit the same coffee shops, bars, and grocery stores every week, and while I would prefer that they be closer, I feel much better than I did before I moved here. Often times, when I’m in Harlem I see the same people over and over, even if I don’t know them by name. After a few encounters, it’s natural to greet them and it feels as though we have an unspoken, mutual understanding that we’re neighbors.  While I’ve had a fairly positive experience visiting Third Places in New York, I know that my experience is not the same as every New York resident. With the increase of residential mobility, especially in New York, I think people use the movement of their neighbors as an excuse to not get to know them, because they know it is possible they won’t be around long.
     Some additional points that resonated with me, include Oldenburg’s discussion about the impact Third Places have on older adults and the importance of the walkability of neighborhoods. As my grandparents age, they become more and more concerned with gatherings and having people around, both for the enjoyment of company and the health benefits. I recently decided that I want to move, due to the minimal walkability of my neighborhood, so I am in agreement with Oldenburg about the importance of being able to walk to Third Places. Places like parks, coffee shops, and grocery stores top my list of places I’d like to be able to access more easily and Oldenburg names these places as exactly the kind of Third Places neighborhoods should seek to give residents access to.
     Lastly, the main thing I’m left thinking about is what happens to Third Places in neighborhoods where gentrification is happening. I think it’s important to determine a way for existing community members feel empowered to share their Third Places and acquaint new neighbors with the area, and for new community members to be open to learning from existing community members.

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by | · 12:23 am

Thoughts on “Third Places” – Somin

Ray Oldenburg describes “Third Places” as places where we spend our time and get close to each other often sharing information. When I look at the characteristics of third places, I see it’s mixed of first place (home) and second place (work). It’s pleasurable like how we spend time at home. It’s also a place where we could share information like we usually do at work. According to Ray Oldenburg, we are having less and less places like third places. I somewhat understand why. We all know how technology and web-based service have been developed rapidly for last 2, 3 decades. Since we have internet, a lot of things can be accomplished online even creating communities.

Third places could be also different depending on what culture you have. Us, Koreans, have different cultural background comparing to American’s. When I think of third places in Korea, there’s none. Simply, we are not used to that. Another thing is that more and more Koreans don’t make time for neighbors nowadays. Only some Korean mothers who are very passionate about their children gather together to share school or after-class-activity related information. I won’t say this can be called so since it’s not pleasurable, moms are often competitive and even stressed out. Besides that, Koreans look for convenience a lot. For example, Ray Oldenburg mentioned laundromat as one type of third places. As far as I know, Koreans, who just came to America, prefer doing laundry in their own unit than doing it in public. Most of the houses in Korea have their own laundry machine and dryer so it makes Koreans naturally spend less time in public.

Though I was born and raised in Korea, I studied about 4 years in Vancouver, Canada where I experienced a bit what Oldenburg describes as third places. As a foreign student, I used to join language meetup every Monday night at a cafe downtown. There we usually talked about what we do, what we think about pretty much anything in multi languages. Now that I read this article, I remember how valuable time I spent in that cafe doing such unforgettable activities. We even met every weekend as well doing more fun activities such as cooking various traditional foods, going on a picnic, bicycling at Stanley Park, etc. I still contact many friends I met from the meetup. One of my friends I made from the meetup actually moved his school to one in Boston after having many talks about design and technology with me. I certainly remember many of us enjoyed our time talking and sharing information. I haven’t tried any language meetups here in NY yet, and I wonder if it’s similar to what I used to have in Vancouver since NY is such a busy city, people seem to have more stuff to do. I hope I could find one third place in NY for myself soon.

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by | September 11, 2015 · 3:54 am

Max’s Thoughts on “Third Places”

Ray Oldenburg discusses many opportunities and benefits for cultivating “Third Places,” several of which resonated closely to me.  Though, some of these moments felt very idealistic and generally unwieldy.

As a native New Yorker, I grew up visiting central park playgrounds near my home very often, creating bonds and relationships with the kids and families in the neighborhood. Rather than a local deli, or grocer, the playground, or public park areas surrounding were a “Third Place.”  Interestingly, some relationships and friendships made there were exclusive to the park.  My park-friends were a category of their own. Of course, at a young age, conversation was hardly stimulating, but looking back at the space now, it’s interesting to think about the considerations of the planners that designed these public “places”.  Benches lined the entire outer areas of the playground we visited, and while some visitors might sit, this public organization considered many use cases from the parents, babysitters, or other casual visitors that might want to socialize, and create a “Third Place” of their own (if perhaps they didn’t want to swing on the monkey bars that day).

Oldenburg mentions chemistry in his personal observations towards the end of the article.  The accessibility of the park by foot, and planning of the architectural layout of these parks were certainly no mistake, according to Oldenburg. I’d agree with this notion, although, perhaps he is offering a bit too much credit to the planners in their efforts to generate community and political debate etc. While considerations were taken, I’m curious how much of the city code/park regulations and the like were considered over community nourishment, and “Third Places”.

I would most definitely agree with Oldenburg’s point on visitor neutrality in parks and “Third Places”. The simple enjoyment of visiting the park and leaving on your own accord offers a minimized commitment and brevity to the experience that is rare otherwise.  In an idealistic world, this laxity would stimulate conversation, and “we take our relaxation with people, we grow to like them, and as we come to like them we are inclined to “do for them””.  These notions seem a bit far-fetched, and…wishful, but maybe that’s the New Yorker in me.

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Additionally, Oldenburg’s early focus on suburbia as this prison-like atmosphere by suggesting an “easy escapes from the cabin fever of marriage and family life” is very specific and I’d be curious to see his value systems be applied to a more rural setting, like New York, where everything is public, walkable, and interactive.  That said, I feel as if there is less community in my neighborhood (Lower East Side) than one might have in a Brooklyn, or Hoboken-like setting. I’d suggest that it’s a level of security, and distrust in the general public in New York.  The constant contact and interaction with those on the subway, street, sidewalk, and otherwise in combination with the crime, dirt, and pace of the city generate an (at times) negative connotation and general irritation with one another. Again, in a suburban setting, I think Oldenburg’s Laws may thrive, but in a city like New York – I’d be skeptical to embrace a lot of his reasoning for “Third Places”.

In comparison, I spent the summer in San Francisco, where, aside from the consist characters, people are generally more friendly, polite, and welcoming.  After several weeks, I was on a first name basis with the barista at a local coffee shop, while in New York, my relationships are few and very far between at any establishment.  Again, maybe the sheer volume, pace and overall congestion of New York offers a unfortunately cyclical cynicism for one another that even a “Third Place” can’t solve.

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by | September 15, 2014 · 5:32 pm

Dami on Third Places

I have a home (First place) in two different places. One is in Seoul, South Korea where I was born and raised and other one is in New York City that I live now. Ironically, though I lived in Seoul longer than here, there are no my personal stuffs anymore in Seoul. Also, although I visit Seoul, with a joy of visiting my hometown, once every two years, I even feel some nameless awkwardness when I sometimes realize that there is no my own space completely in the house. Can I say that the house in Seoul is my first place? Then what about New York where I currently live? I honestly can’t say that this is a home completely for me either. There is no family here, I’m not USA citizen, and more of my close friends are in Seoul. Nevertheless, the reason I can say that this city is my current home as well as my third place is because I am building my life here.

When I think about the things that gave me small joys, while leading a busy life, in the third places, they were the relationships with people that I have built and communications I have had with them. Although I now live alone, I have spent more time with my roommates in New York. They befriended me when I was lonely and were willing to listen to my stories. I believe, through the people I met in the shared space in New York, a completely strange place at the time, I have been able to establish a more stable life for myself here. I also have been keeping in touch with my friend from Denmark I met in a youth hostel 6 years ago. Despite the differences in destinations and places where we live and the fact that we hardly get to see each other, it seems that the Internet and SNS have enabled us to keep in touch each other. I believe the relationships in the third place I have built with the people around me, such as the people at my favorite café, the salad store staff, who remembered my name and gave me macaroon to try, and the middle-aged gentlemen I met at Central park, who gave me small tips on life during a short conversation we had, etc., are making my everyday life more diverse and warm.

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by | · 12:22 am

Third Places

Thoughts can be found here : http://interactionjournal.tumblr.com/

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by | September 14, 2014 · 11:08 pm

Effy on “Third place”

https://www.tumblr.com/effyzhangdesign/97516008611/the-new-third-place

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